Unpublished interview with Dr. Leonard McCoy

TRANSCRIPT OF UNPUBLISHED INTERVIEW WITH Dr. LEONARD McCOY (Age 111) CONDUCTED BY AUTHOR G.K. TUSKA, July 14^th, 2338

(George Tuska died July 19^th, 2338, and this interview was lost among his effects for almost 7 years. For the full story of the fortuitous coincidence that allowed it to be rediscovered, see Part 1 of the serialized chapter Depression, elsewhere in this plog.) 

Dr. Leonard McCoy, circa 2335

TUSKA: Okay, Len – let’s start with something simple. When did you enter Star Fleet?

McCOY: Oh hell, I can’t remember dates anymore. Probably around 2257. I joined up to forget about a woman. Dumbest thing I ever did.

T: What woman was this?

M: Her name was Nancy. We were together a few years and it ended. I really can’t recall why anymore. She’s been dead a long time, now.

T: Why was Star Fleet a mistake?

M: Oh, I don’t suppose it was a mistake. Got a lot of things out of it. Bad and good. I think I just meant that I should have tried to make it work instead of running off to get away from her. Seemed like the further I ran the more I missed it. I never did get to make it right.

T: So how did you meet Jim Kirk?

M: Let’s see; that was about five years after I joined the Fleet. I was on leave in San Francisco – my first time back after four years in space. I tried to look up Nancy, but she’d gotten married and shipped off to some god-forsaken archeological dig at the hind end of space.(1) On this one day I was in the JAG (Judge Advocate General)’s office to give a deposition in some kind of case about a guy who went nuts on a deep space mission – that was my area then; space psychology – and into the office walks Jim Kirk, big as life. He was dating this girl in the JAG’s office – a pretty lawyer – Aureel, Aliel, something like that.(2)

T: What year would this have been?

M: You’re gonna ask me that again? Do the math.

T: Okay. (Laughs.) So this was before he became a captain?

M: Yup. Right before, as I recall. But we hit it off pretty fast. I was really happy to do a lot of drinking back then, and Jim could handle quite a few. I never saw him really out of it, though – you know what I mean? You could tell it affected him, but he just kept that tight control – he’d never go beyond a certain spot. Which made it good for me. Kept me from taking it too far.

T: What did you think of him at first?

M: I liked him right off. Real honest, as I saw it. I thought I could trust what he said. I just liked him. He had a way about that – almost everybody warmed up to him. Especially the girls. Another thing that made it good for me; I got the leftovers. (Laughs.)

T: So he would have shipped out less than a year later. Did you stay in touch with him?

M: How? By carrier wave? There’s not much personal chatter going back and forth by sub-space back then.

T: I guess I mean did you think of him as a friend already?

M: No. We just had some drinks and some fun. I was shipping out around the same time and we went our separate ways.

T: So how DID you wind up on the Enterprise? You were on the U.S.S. Dallas, right?

M: That’s right. Routine duty. Trading expeditions, supply runs and such. Strictly bandages and tongue-depressor stuff.

T: Tongue-depressor?

M: (Laughs.) It’s a fancy name for a wooden stick they’d use to hold your tongue down and look in your throat in the old days. In other words, real basic medicine.

T: Right.

M: About a couple months into the tour I get a call to see the captain – nice guy by the name of Gentile.(3) And he says that a Constitution star ship needs a replacement for their chief surgeon, and would I be interested? There’s going to be a bump in pay and grade – this is how I became a Medico 1-A. Well, it turns out that it’s Jim Kirk on the Enterprise. His surgeon had a heart attack and decided to retire, and he knows I’m in the area, so he has them transfer me off of the Dallas and on to the Enterprise. And let me tell you – I hated it, but I loved it.

T: How do you mean?

M: I’ll tell you how I mean. I almost died like 20 times on that goddamn ship. I was asphyxiated, knocked out, shot at – with bullets, for godsakes – nearly frozen to death, blasted by Klingons, and jabbed through the chest with an antique lance. It was horrible. It felt like every damn day there was something after us, or someone trying to kill us. But let me tell you, I never did so much good work in my life as I did then – we helped so many people and beings. I was operating at the absolute top of my ability as a doctor – I didn’t appreciate it then, but hell, it was a once in a lifetime experience. Maybe once in two or three lifetimes.

T: How much of this experience was because of the commander you had?

M: Oh, mostly because of Jim, I have no doubt. He was one for walking in where angels fear to tread. But that was his job. I was pissed about it at times; almost getting me killed fooling around in things we could have easily avoided, but it’s the job. I knew some other officers who thought he was a glory hound, but that’s just not the truth. Not at all.

T: Backing up for a second, what do you remember about the lawyer in the JAG’s office. Her name was Areel Shaw.

M: That’s right. Areel. Pretty girl. Blonde, smart, good looking. Typical Kirk type. He always did go for those fair-haired ones. He wasn’t too serious about her, I don’t think. He saw her a couple times after that. She nearly threw him in jail once.

T: During his court martial hearing?

M: Yeah. Completely bogus. (Pause.) Damn, she was a good looking girl. No doubt.

T: So when you first came on board, what was that like?

M: Well, I was just finding my way. I mean, I’m not sure what kind of commander he is, right? He seemed real professional on the surface, but is it that way in private, too? First or second night he calls me to his cabin and breaks out some Saurian brandy to welcome me. From there we just developed this kind of love / hate relationship.

T: Why hate?

M: Wouldn’t you hate someone who was trying to get you killed all the time? Jesus!

T: I guess. (Laughs.)

M: That’s okay. I made him hate me sometimes, too. I was a real pain in the ass. I never thought something bad about his command that I didn’t say. That friendship just backfired on him, because I’d just blurt out what I thought all the time. And I never said anything good. What a jackass I was. (Laughs.)

T: Was he a good commander?

M: Of course. Of course. For every time he got me in trouble, he saved my ass. And hell, what did we bring back after that first five years? A fistful of treaties and charters, cures for a half-dozen fatal diseases, new technology, the first look outside the galaxy; what more do you want? He did everything you could want, and more.

T: By the book?

M: Oh, hell no. He followed the book when he wanted to. The minute the book was against him, throw it out.

T: Can you give me an example?

M: He’s definitely dead, right? (Laughs.) You never know with him.

T: Well, they never found his body. (Laughs.)

M: I’ll risk it. (Pause.) What was the question?

T: An example of not following orders.

M: (Laughs.) How much recording time do you have there?

T: It’s pretty much unlimited.

M: Well, when we get tired I’ll make some drinks. (Laughs.) Frankly I’m amazed he was never hauled in on charges of Landing Sedition.(4) Had to be half a dozen times he broke the damn P.R.I.M.E. directive. There were those kinda backward types on Gamma Triangle [Gamma Trianguli VI] who were worshipping a statue. He just blew it up. With phasers. Without orders. I wanted to see them be self-determining, too, but I wouldn’t have just blown the damn thing up. Or on Beta III. He just decided they weren’t developing, so he destroyed their central computer and let them fend for themselves.

T: These are all part of his Star Fleet record.

M: The one he nearly got broken for was Eminiar VII. Damned if he didn’t dodge light on that one. Two planets at war for 500 years and he just strolls in and changes the rules. Destroyed all their computers and equipment – on his own word – then threatens to blow up the entire planet if they don’t cooperate. I cannot believe he got out of that one. The only thing that saved him was that the war stopped and they both relented to join the Federation. Then you know what happened later?

T: I do.

M: After about 15 years of peace they go back to war, and both planets are wiped off the interstellar charts. Absolutely obliterated. The alternative wasn’t too great, but would that had happened if we hadn’t interfered? I don’t know.

T: I want to ask…

M: (Interrupting.) I’m doing it again. Goddammit, do I ever have anything good to say? Can you just take that out?

T: That won’t be a quote, Len.

M: After I’m dead, maybe. But not before. (Pause.) Well – never, please. (Laughs.)

T: Let’s try something lighter. Tell me about Jim Kirk’s love life. The important ones, not the conquests.

M: Well, I wouldn’t normally talk about this, but it’s all a completed run, right? I didn’t know too many of them. Toni – she was a serious one.(5) I thought he might settle down there, finally. I went to see him in Idaho, and there she was living with him in the cabin. The domestic bliss of James T. Kirk. I damned near fell over when I saw it. It was like watching Spock laugh – kinda creepy.(6)

T: Would you say she was the one? The one true love?

M: Oh, no. No.

T: Was there one? Someone more important than the others?

M: Oh. Yeah. (Long pause.) Edith.

T: Edith?

M: Edith Keeler.

T: Len, who’s that?

M: Have you ever met a woman who you instantly knew would never hurt you, or judge you harshly? And who gave you the supreme confidence that you could accomplish anything you wanted? That we all could? That was Edith Keeler. She’s the only woman Jim Kirk ever told me he loved. Hell, I think I loved her.

T: When was this? Approximately?

M: A long time ago. Long time…

T: Where?

M: In New York City. I was there. She was an amazing woman.

T: Len, I have to ask. When, exactly?

M: Well, I can’t tell you that.

T: You don’t remember?

M: I can’t tell you because they’d lock me up.

T: Star Fleet?

M: Classified, my boy.

T: Jim Kirk’s relationship with a woman is classified? Was she a spy?

M: Don’t be an idiot – she was probably the most trustworthy woman I ever met. Then, I guess I don’t have much track record in that area.

T: So why is it classified?

M: I probably said too much already. Can we forget it?

T: Len, I have no idea who Edith Keeler is. How can you just drop that on me and then dummy up?

M: Because I can damn well do anything I please. You want to stop now?

T: I’m just asking – alright, I understand. Can you tell me something not classified?

M: Like what?

T: Just tell me what it was about Edith Keeler that attracted Jim Kirk to her. What made her so special to him. That’s not a secret, is it?

M: I don’t suppose so. My God – where to start? First, I’m going to say that I always thought Jim was afraid of getting hurt by a woman. You know his mother died when he was young, and there was always this idea that all the women would abandon him like she did. That’s my armchair diagnosis, which I think is pretty good, because I had access to his psyche file and DSP’s.(7) Even he never got to see that stuff. And I think Edith was the only woman who ever projected the idea that she would never hurt him that way. That she was there for the long haul. And she was so smart and so thoughtful – he loved women with quick minds and good hearts. He’d go for the big busted blondes for a fling, but he really wanted someone like his mother for love. And the more they were like his mother, the more he’d be afraid that they’d leave. So he’d leave first, which would relieve the anxiety that he felt.

T: But Edith assuaged his fears.

M: I think so, at least partly. You had to trust her. Now, I’m NOT a trusting guy where it comes to women. I’ve had plenty of bad luck in my day. But it took me a grand total of 24 hours to let myself go and feel comfortable around her.

T: So this was in New York?

M: Listen you bastard, what do you think I am? Senile? I told you, it’s classified. Do you want me to end up like Darius Garth – tucked away under guard for the rest of my life, whatever there is left of it?

T: I’m sorry – but you brought up New York, Len. It’s just that this is something no one has ever talked about before, as far as I can tell. I’m curious.

M: Get over it. The story is dead – along with everyone else. And me soon.

T: How about a visual sketch of Edith? Just looks.

M: Hm. Typical Kirk woman in a lot of ways. She was just a charity worker, but what dignity and charm! Petite, fair haired – beautiful, of course, but she exuded such radiance. And warmth – that was the thing. Just so warm, and ready with a smile. Mm. Even after all these years I can see her standing next to me, offering something to read. Crazy what sticks in your mind. I can still smell the disinfectant on those sheets.

T: Did you know her before Jim?

M: No. He met her a little while before me. (Pause.) I think that’ll be enough about it now.

T: About Edith?

M: Yeah. Ask me something else.

T: Okay. (Pause.) Well, I guess we can come back to that. You were talking before about never saying anything good about Kirk’s command. I’ll give you the chance here. Tell me what you liked – what was he good at?

M: Well hell – there were mostly things he was good at. But it’s no fun talking about the good things, right? (Laughs.) What fucking instincts the guy had! They got away from him a little in the later years – that’s when the real troubles happened. But those first ten years? He was like a professional gambler. He could calculate odds faster than one of Spock’s computers. And if they odds were against us, well he’d just dive in anyway. And always get away with it.

T: Luck?

M: I suppose, a bit. But really that damn instinct – didn’t matter if it was combat or diplomacy or lovemaking – he knew how to handle it.

T: What about as a tactician?

M: Hell, I don’t know anything about that stuff – but sometimes it was the psychology of the thing. Talking about gambling; I remember the time that he bluffed that Federation commander out of blowing us up.(8) It looked like there was no chance – but he talked his way out of it. And we wound up with a new ally out of it. That’s a type of genius.

T: This was the First Federation ship?

M: I think that’s right.

T: What did the crew think of him?

M: Most of those men would have walked into fire for him. A whole bunch of them did, for godssakes – there was one time that we lost about 10 men in 14 months, which is almost unheard of. Now, I did the report on every one of them, and it was just circumstances. Nothing negligent, but there were a few crewmembers who were a little wary. I heard the scuttlebutt going around from time to time. Some of ‘em got scared to be called for survey teams or landing parties. I started getting the occasional sick call just as we were pulling into orbit. But mostly they believed in him – and why not – he always did his job. And always recognized what the crew did for him. Never shy about telling them positive or negative. Gave more than a few people important careers. Captain Sulu got an academy course while he was with him, and what a fine man he is.

T: Did he know that some men were wary to go on landing parties with him?

M: Oh, I seriously doubt it. And they all got killed after a while anyway. (Laughs.) I shouldn’t say that. Every man on that ship believed in what we were doing, and more than a few gave their life for it. Nothing funny in that.

T: Tired, Len? Did you want to take a break?

M: Maybe five minutes. Okay, George?

T: Okay. (Stop audio packet.)

(Resume.)

T: We were talking about Kirk’s positive qualities as captain.

M: Did I say he had great instincts?

T: Yes, you did.

M: I’ll tell you something else – he could relate to almost anybody. I think most people tend to think of the star ship captain as a military man – a commander, but he’s really as much a diplomatist and explorer as anything else. Jim had so much knowledge and understood people so well, that he could just connect with them. A huge part of his job was communicating the values of the Federation, and being the figurehead out there in space; showing other races the positive aspects of our ideas.

T: So you saw his job more as ambassador or explorer than military man.

M: Absolutely. Or at least as much.

T: Just Jim Kirk, or all the Constitution commanders?

M: They’re all well rounded – it’s the nature of the five-year mission. Put everything into one man. I mean, they have help, of course, but it isn’t like the Klingons, or the Romulans – where they have pure military ships devoted to patrolling the neutral zone. We’ve got everything built in; power, diplomacy, science and so on.

T: Do you think that dilutes the brand, as it were?

M: I think it’s the other way around. I don’t want the guy who’s finding all these new things to see everything through the sight of a gun. That’s what makes us different – we’re able to think our way out of things. Or into things, if we’re supposed to, I guess.

T: Did Jim Kirk always think first?

M: Absolutely not. His first instinct was almost always to fall back on force, and gradually figure out that wasn’t the answer. More than a few times Spock and I would have to talk him out of an aggressive course of action. But he usually did come to the right conclusion.

T: So you and Spock [Enterprise science officer 2252 – 2270] were in accord on this?

M: (Laughs heartily.) Maybe I misspoke. There were a few times we didn’t disagree, and those were among them. (Laughs.) Being from Vulcan he’s essentially a pacifist, you know, so he’s almost always against aggression. And so was I sometimes, so it worked out that way. (Smiles.)

T: Tell me a little bit about the relationship between Kirk and Spock. There’s been a lot written about it.

M: Well, in some ways it was a marriage of convenience. Each of them had qualities the other lacked, and it made for a good team. Now, Spock is very smart, of course, but there’s just no way a Vulcan can really run a star ship.

T: (pause) Do you want to clarify that, Len?

M: There’s just too many things that go into making a good star ship captain for logic to answer them all. Seriously. A Vulcan captain of a science ship or a diplomatic vessel, sure. But can you imagine the advantage that opposing captains would have in knowing that a Vulcan was in command of a military ship? You’d always know that their decisions would be based on logic, and counter it; and the opponent’s illogic would throw the Vulcan captain off every time. Jesus – even the Vulcans know it! Have you ever wondered why there’s never been a Vulcan commander of a war ship? It’s not just because they’re supposedly pacifists.

T: I don’t think we’ll quote this either, Len. (Laughs.)

M: Quote it, don’t quote it – what’re they going to do to me for that?

T: Well, it isn’t exactly…

M: I know it isn’t, but what the hell. I’m sick and tired of all that talk about logic. You know how often I heard that shit back then? My God! Now, I’m going to tell you something, and if you put it in the book, I’ll deny I said it. I like Spock.(9) I think he’s a good person, mostly. But here’s the problem; if he really believed in pure logic, he wouldn’t always be good. There’d have to be times when the logical thing to do – whatever form it takes – might not be the “good” or “right” choice. But I’ve never seen him make that “bad” choice. In fact, I’ve seen him make the illogical, dangerous, “good” choice many times. So he has to have some outside ethical authority regulating behavior and choice, same as us. The Vulcans act like logic answers everything, but – forgive me, I know it’s not polcor – it doesn’t.  The logic crap is a smokescreen. They’re just as angry and horny as we are, and one day all that pent up frustration is going to roll out and hurt some people.

T: Okay. (Pause)  Well, getting back to Kirk and Spock. Did they consider themselves friends?

M: That’s a damn good question. At first – no, I don’t think so. Who knows what Spock was thinking, but Jim was pretty professional the first year or so. He loosened up a bit later on, but at first it was all business. They even had a little rivalry going on at the chessboard. It drove Spock nuts that Jim could beat him all the time, and Jim relished irritating him. I can tell you the exact moment that things changed permanently, though.

T: Go ahead.

M: It was when we first went to Vulcan for Spock’s mating ritual.

T: What do they call it – the Pon Far?

M: Right. Jim went way out on a limb for Spock there. I mean, he directly disobeyed orders, and I’d never seen him do it like that before. He sometimes played fast and loose with his command privilege, but this was just outright refusal. Very dangerous stuff. And it was unusual for Spock to reveal those kinds of unambiguous feelings for Jim, and for me too. He invited both of us to come down to the planet, which was absolutely unheard of then. I was really surprised – especially after all the things I’d said to him over the years. I felt pretty guilty about it, then after a couple hours I just started up again. (Pause) For Chrissakes how could anyone live with me? Is it any wonder I couldn’t hold onto a good woman?

T: (Laughs) So that was really the first time it was apparent they were actual friends?

M: Well, that was the first time I recall it being that obvious, and realized how close they were becoming.

T: Do you think there was any truth in the rumor that they may have been lovers at one time?

M: What!? Are you serious? For God’s sake, one man is the horniest heterosexual in the universe and the other is an emotionless, asexual, rigidly controlled Vulcan! What a damn fool question. Is this what they teach you in journalism school?

T: Sorry Len, I have to ask.

M: Actually, you don’t have to ask. You choose to ask. The answer is no.

T: There’s been talk.

M: Right. And I was there the whole time and I’m telling you they weren’t lovers – not that there’s anything wrong with that. Can the talk stop now? I can’t believe I even have to clarify this.

T: Fair enough. Do you want to take a break?

M: Hell, yes.

T: Okay. (Stop audio packet)

 

Read part two of this interview HERE

 

NOTES:

1) Biologist Nancy Judge married archeologist Robert Crater and went to planet M-113 to do research on the archeological remains of indigenous life. She died in June, 2264.

2) Areel Shaw, Star Fleet attorney.

3) Joseph Gentile (2209-2264), U.S.S. Dallas captain from 2250-2264

4) Landing Sedition is the specific charge for breaking Star Fleet’s General Order One, the non-interference Directive.

5) Antonia DeMarco (2237-2344), who Kirk lived with after his temporary retirement in 2281.

6) McCoy refers to referrs to Spock of Vulcan, Enterprise science officer from 2252 and first officer from 2256-2270.

7) Deep Sub-Conscious Probe, Star Fleet’s confidential monthly examination of rank officers, available only to ship’s space-psychiatrist or chief medical officer.

8) McCoy is referring to Captain Balok of the First Federation starship Fesarious, encountered by the Enterprise in 2266.

9) When the doctor saw this quote in the proofs, he denied he said it. He did not, however, ask that it be removed.